Wednesday Q&A: Is it rape if I was drunk?
[EDITOR'S NOTE: ALTHOUGH THE INFORMATION IN THIS POST IS GOOD, THE POST ITSELF IS OUTDATED. IT WAS PUBLISHED IN JULY 2009. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AT ALL ABOUT SEXUAL ASSAULT PLEASE CONTACT RAINN'S AT 1-800-656-HOPE (4673).]
Q: Someone had sex with me when I didn’t want to, when I didn’t even know it was going to happen. I was drunk, and I assume he was too. I can’t remember much except that I woke up to find him doing it, and it hurt (and it was my first time.) If I had been sober I would probably call it rape, but … could he have really known what he was doing, since he was drunk too? My friends say it’s rape but I feel responsible. Is it rape?
A: I will try to be as definitive as possible: Rape is any act of sexual intercourse that is non-consensual. It doesn’t matter if someone is drunk. It doesn’t matter if you know them. It doesn’t matter if you enjoy their company. It doesn’t matter if you invited them in. It doesn’t matter if you would have said “yes” under different, consensual circumstances.
It sounds like you’re asking whether the perpetrator in this scenario should be held accountable for his actions if he was intoxicated. He may not have had as much to drink. He may have. We don’t know. It doesn’t matter. I will say it again, because it bears repeating. Rape is any act of sexual intercourse that is non-consensual. Period.
I spoke with a legal expert to help address this. It’s a sensitive question, but it’s an important one. Multiple studies have found that alcohol and other drugs are used in the vast majority of date and acquaintance rapes. It’s very important that we take these crimes seriously, and that we hold perpetrators accountable for their behavior.
But we’re treading on legal ground here, so I turned to Jenny W., a legal expert who specializes in domestic abuse and sexual assault cases. “My gut reaction,” says Jenny, “is that if a woman perceives or feels she has been raped or assaulted, then she has.”
Legally speaking, each state has its own statute that defines, in often very specific language, the types of actions that qualify as sexual assault. These statutes distinguish varying degrees of sexual assault, each with its own measures for what must be proven, and a range of penalties if and when a perpetrator is found guilty.
So, all of that background information leads us to this, which gets at the heart of the question. Says our legal expert: “If a perpetrator is intoxicated, it could be argued [by the perpetrator’s attorney] that the assault deserves a lesser charge. But intoxication in its own right does not excuse the conduct under the law.”
Phrased another way, from the Wisconsin Coalition Against Sexual Assault: “Being under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs is not an excuse for perpetrating sexual violence. It does not give someone a right to hurt other people.”
Many perpetrators of date or acquaintance rape use drugs and alcohol as tools in their assaults – in fact, alcohol is the number-one date rape drug used in the United States. However, regardless of whether the victim was intoxicated, regardless of what she was wearing or where she was or whether she fought back or whether she knew her attacker – the perpetrator’s actions are not her fault. We cannot blame the victim. And we must hold perpetrators accountable for their actions.
Some alarming facts about date/acquaintance rape, particularly on college campuses and among young adults:
- According to Harvard University, 1 in every 20 female college students is sexually assaulted each school year; 72% of those women are raped while they are too intoxicated to give consent.
- A national study of sexual assault on college campuses found that 75% of male students and 55% of female students involved in date rape had been drinking or using drugs at the time.
- The same study found that an alarming 84% of men whose actions matched the legal definition of rape said that what they did was definitely not rape.
Many online resources can help you learn how to reduce your risk of being drugged and sexually assaulted, the warning signs to watch for, and what to do if you suspect this has happened to someone you know. This online checklist is a good place to start.
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Each Wednesday we feature a Q&A with an expert. This column is not legal advice, nor is it intended to take the place of legal advice, professional counseling, crisis intervention, or safety planning. For legal or emotional support or for safety planning specific to your situation, please access help from the National Domestic Violence Hotline or from a domestic violence agency near you. This column is intended for educational purposes only.
Please exercise the same safe, supportive, non-judgmental restraint in the comment section of the Q&A as you do for survivors, as many of them are reading.
Our volunteer expert, Carrie K., is a trained advocate who has worked with survivors of domestic abuse and sexual assault, as well as their families and friends. Her background includes hotline advocacy, community education, and awareness and prevention programming around issues of domestic violence. She currently works for a domestic violence intervention and prevention program in Wisconsin. She blogs at rageisgood.blogspot.com
Thank you for visiting Violence UnSilenced, a speak-out platform for survivors of domestic abuse, sexual assault, and sexual abuse. If you are a survivor and it is safe to do so, we encourage you to share your story here. If you are not a survivor but you want to support those who are, please click around this site and find out more about what you can do.
Comments
I think the issue for most women including myself in most of these crimes is... Can a women give consent while drunk? In the medical field we will not allow anyone patient to sign consent if under the influence they must be sober and coherent. How can any person give consent while under the influence? If I were a man and because of the possibility of charges for rape. I would want a women to be sober to give consent not take my chances. Take into consideration that if you cant give consent because of alcohol and or drugs that one can allow another to pass on a deadly STD. No one consents to getting an injection of HIV or Hepatitis while drunk.
This is an old post, originally published in July 2009. If you need support today regarding rape or sexual assault, please contact RAINN's safe line at 1-800-656-HOPE (4673).
Hello, I have been very confused about something which happened to me in February this year. Basically i had been dating a guy since the November before, it had always been a very much sexually based relationship. But i liked him alot and was hoping of it becoming official. Although one night i had been out drinking and had bumped into him on that night with his friends. Ended up going home with him which was a normal thing to do. We decided to get more drink on the way home, so i polished off almost another bottle of wine. I remember the guy i'll refer to as steve making suggestions of a threesome with which i was like no way- in a laughing at him for suggesting it. but he kept bringing it up and i kept saying its not happening. A couple of the guys went to bed and then i suddenly found myself on my own in the living area so went in the bedrooms looking for them. found steve and a couple the others chilling on the bed and i remember saying can we go to bed but the rest is a blur, i feel like i blacked out. i can recall steve taking my top off and comments like 'get involved' to the others, and i have a couple of frozen images from that night. i woke up in his bed, covered in bruises and bite marks. i remember texting him apologising that morning for a reason i do not know why. but i couldn't hold it together in uni that day my friends could see that i was physically shaking and in pain. my friends have told me that they think this was what happened to me, i just cant bring myself to write the word or say it. i almost want someone to tell me what it was but still cant believe that that would happen to me. only a few friends and my sister who is a lot older know, but i have never been able to say what it was that happened because i cant remember. i still bump into the guy regularly, we say hi to each other but i dont know why, almost like pretending it never happened. but i wonder if this was what happened would i be able to say hi to him ? but when i do see him i feel physically that my body reacts, mainly feeling sick. i just dont know what to do or what to think. it is something i think about everyday. sorry this is long if someone does read this.
Hi Denise, i just wanted to say your not alone, im going through a similar situation, i've told my friends and they tell me that i consented, but i find myself crying and feeling empty. I spoke to my doctor about it and he believes i was sexually assault, i believe something isnt right if you feel horrible, thats a sign that your mind, body and soul, is trying to tell you something.
Hello, I am confused too about a certain situation that happened to me, I am not sure whether to call it rape. I told some of my friends about it and most of them say it wasn't rape. Some people say being drunk is a stupid excuse because you "know" what you are doing. And sometimes I believe them, but there is something deep inside that makes me go against what they said. Last week I "pre-gamed" before heading to a party with a girlfriend of mine. Afterwards, we met up with an acquaintance of mine and his group of friends. Although I could walk fine, I knew I was very drunk. Before this day, the acquaintance-lets call him Mike-and I had been texting. He seemed like a really nice guy and I was into him. On the day of the pre-game, he told me that his roommate was bringing his girlfriend over, and so he had nowhere to stay. Being the naive girl that I am, i told him that since my roomate wasnt here, he could stay in my place. I had NO INTENTIONS to have sex with him. We ended up not going to a party and we went to my girlfriends dorm to take some shots. Although he took some, he was perfectly fine, and he told me to take more shots. We then left the place together and went to my dorm. I was perfectly okay with kissing him but that is all I wanted. When we got to my place, I found myself having sex with him. I was the one who initiated it but I didnt want to do it at all, it was as if my mind was somewhere else. When he left later that morning, I felt horrible. Is this really my fault?
the same thing happened to me except for people watched, my best friend as a matter of a fact, and they took pictures. i tried to say no but i couldnt talk. it is still under investigation. sometimes i wish i wouldve never reported it.
To whomever asked this question. Thanks, because I was wondering too. Your situation was identical to mine. I would never have consented, even though he was my friend. I know he knew what was happening more than I did.
Hello, all.
The number one search phrase that leads people to Violence UnSilenced is "was it still rape if I was drunk?" The number one phrase. That's how many people are wondering, aching, Googling, desperate. Isn't that staggering?
Yes, it is still rape if you were drunk. Yes it is.
I urge any of you who are questioning to call this hotline: 1-800-656-4673. The call is free, and totally private.
This website is also an excellent start: http://www.rainn.org/
Rape is not your fault. You are not alone.
Please call the hotline. Please.
I need Help... My cousin came in to town with his eleven year old son. My boyfriend, my cousin's best friend, was there too. We'd spent the Saturday watching baseball. That night we went to my best friend's birthday party without my boyfriend because he was passed out from drinking all day. We had a great time dancing at the party. We came back, and my boyfriend was awake. They are fraternity brothers and were wild back in the days, apparently. There's always been competition between them. My cousin wanted to go out to the bar. Said he'd go alone if he had to. I opted out because I was exhausted, and I don't like to get wasted. My boyfriend made me feel guilty about letting my cousin go out alone in my town, so I went. He ordered Rumpleminz, and I lost my memory very quickly. I don't remember leaving the bar, or walking to my house, or anything. Until I "awoke" to my cousin fucking me in the hot tub. I remember asking him if it was okay, and he said that it was just energy. I protested, and kicked him off, and curled up into a ball in the corner of the tub, and he would grab me. I know that he didn't hurt me. He didn't throw me around to get me into the hot tub. I had to be functional enough to get into the hot tub, but i can't remember anything. The next morning, my boyfriend just knew. Called me an abomination. Called my cousin a predator who knew exactly what he was doing. I am rotting inside. I don't know what to do. I would never have wanted that. I would never have allowed it. I often feel like I'm the most wretched person alive. Besides him. Please, I need to hear someone else's take on this. I feel like I'm going down a very wrong path...
Mica, I urge you to call this hotline: 1-800-656-4673. The call is free, and totally private. This is a really good website, too: http://www.rainn.org/
You were absolutely raped, it was not your fault, and you are not alone.
Please, please call that number and they will help you. Please.
I understand why many of the circumstances that are posted here could and should be considered rape. What if he was just as drunk as you and he doesn't remember having sex with you, but as a women we know! Is it considered rape. We were both drinking and we both passed out neither of us remember having sex.
I was sexually assaulted by a friend of a friend at my own birthday celebration last weekend. I was very drunk and went to lay down in her guest room only to wake up for a brief moment to find some one having sex with me. Then I woke up in the morning and my friends boyfriends' brother was laying next to me fully clothed and on th floor there was a pile of clothes which belonged to the guy I was seeing. Something very horrible happened in that room and I only remember bits and pieces but I do know that I did not invite anyone in that room except the guy I was dating. Like i said I don't remember what happened but I when I woke up I just felt like something was wrong. I began screaming, crying and hyperventalting. Now the 5 people, my supposed friends, who where there when it happened have all truned on me and said that it was my fault for getting too drunk. I never came on to any of these men, drunk or sober and I certianly did not consent to having sex with the man or men who raped me.
Thank you so much for this article I have been feeling so guilty and even began to question whether I had been raped or not. In the pit of my stomach I know I was raped and I know I was right to report it. Just because I was very drunk doesnt give a man the right to rape me.
This Very Same Thing Happen to me, it was my first time, but what i remember is him dragging me onto the bed
The issue I see with the question that was asked, is that she never mentions weather or not she gave consent. She even admits to not remembering much of anything. So if she did say yes while she was intoxicated then would it still be rape? Now I have heard of a other incidence where both parties involved where very intoxicated and neither could remember much of what had happened. To make a long story short, the man was charged for rape. In a case like that shouldn't they both be charged since both the woman and the man were equally responsible?
I had something similar happen to me last year. I am a sophomore in college and had never drank before college last year. I went to a party with some of my friends and got really drunk really fast. I don't remember much at all from that night except my friend telling me to kiss this guy. I had met him before but did not know him well at all. I do not remember anything else after this point except little flashes here and there. The next thing I vagually remember was playing what must have been stip poker in the living room of my apartment. My roommate had gone to bed and I was alone with the guy I had been kissing and one of my best guy friends naked. I sort of remember each of them taking turns kissing me or taking me into the bathroom. And in the morning I woke up in bed with the guy I had been kissing and my other guy friend was gone. The guy left and I got sick. I wanted to believe we didnt have sex. I was a virgin and planned to be until I was married. But by the way I hurt and other signs my more experienced roommate assured me we did. I have not told anyone about this and I have not talked to either guy about what happened. Was I raped? Should I tell anyone? It has really been bothering me. I feel violated and scared.
if there is no consent, it is rape. Period.
"Was it rape if we were both drunk?" http://bit.ly/d0VWD
(Very educational article, IMO)
It's rape, no ifs buts or what about it. The rape laws in a state of Australia were changed recently. No longer is the onus on the victim to prove that it was consensual but now it is up to the perpetrator to prove that consent was given. This takes the responsibility off the person who was raped and puts it where it belongs, with the person who believes they're on a "lucky streak" and just taking whatever they damn well please, regardless. Just because a young girl is drunk and out of it, does not mean she's giving her body away to whoever decides to take what they want. This type of rape is extremely common. It is alarming that when women get older and throughout their lives they have shared stories with each other, that some realise they have no female friends or acquaintances at all that have NOT been subject to some form of sexual assault or rape in their life times. Recent disclosure from a friend revealed that she was repeatedly raped by a teenage neighbour at the age of 6.
RT @MaggieDammit: Wednesday Q&A w/an expert: Was it rape? http://bit.ly/d0VWD
Wednesday Q&A w/an expert: Was it rape? http://bit.ly/d0VWD
I hate that women are not taught enough that they own their bodies, and shouldn't have to do what they don't want to no matter what. I hate that this question still gets asked so often. Thanks for featuring it.
Something similar happened to me in college. I went to a frat party and had the "party punch." I don't know what was in the punch. But it affected me much faster and more potent than any "punch" I'd had before. The thing is, I was with a guy that I had been dating. And with my friends. And when I'm drunk, I become more affectionate. So when we dropped off my friend at her dorm, she had no idea that I would be in any danger of something happening that I didn't want to. Because I was seeing the guy after all. We were almost a "couple."
We went back to his dorm room. I don't recall much of what and how it happened. I knew that when I was fully aware, I realized that we had "done it." And I was upset about it. Because had I been aware, I wouldn't have consented. I was starting to have doubts about the guy and was not ready to sleep with him at all.
And I was angry. But I didn't take it out on him. Because I had vague recollections of my stupor telling him that I wanted him. And making him go get a condom. So my drunken must have consented, I deduced.
And I felt guilty. For leading him on. I eventually sabatoged the relationship because I never let go of the anger or guilt.
And he probably never understood that he took advantage of me. Was it rape? I don't know. But it felt like it was.
What an excellent question! So many victims already "protect" their abusers -- even without the introduction of alcohol/drugs into the equation. One of VU's recent contributors said in her story that she spent years telling herself and anyone else that asked that "she'd wanted it to happen". All because she was humiliated and ashamed of something not her fault. And if I recall correctly, there was no alcohol involved in that case (check me on this one Maggie, I could be mistaken).
The reason that even consensual sex with a minor or a person of impaired mental ability is considered rape in most states is that the victim is not capable of giving informed consent. So the fact that you were intoxicated, in all likelihood, impaired your judgment to a point that your ability to consent was compromised. His intoxication is immaterial. Whether his judgment was impaired or not -- let's assume it was -- nobody slipped the booze to him without his knowledge. Nobody put a gun to his head and forced him to consume it. Nobody poured it down his throat against his will.
It's important to understand one critical fact about alcohol. Alcohol does not "make you do things". Alcohol does act as a disinhibitor, it turns off the normal "behavioral filters" that keep us within the boundaries of acceptable behavior. But that is all it does. And following that reasoning to its logical conclusion, what getting drunk did for him was remove the ethical obstacle from something he wanted to do in the first place. In his mind, it became "okay" to force himself on you, even if it was for just that moment, even if it was something you'd never have expected from him.
Whether to prefer charges against him or not is up to you. I'm not a legal expert, but I'd say you'd have a good case. Better in some states than others, but you'd probably have a case in any state. But whether you ask the court to hold him accountable or not, you need to hold him accountable. Or if nothing else, you need to not hold yourself accountable.
Because Carrie's right, No.Means.No. Under any circumstances.
And if you gain nothing else from this post, I hope you'll take that much away with you and believe it. It wasn't your fault.
thank you for asking a question that I know has been silently asked in the minds of thousands upon thousands of others before. And thank you Carrie, for offering such a sound and definitive answer to that question.
I think the hardest group of people to reach with this message is young girls (or boys). Like 13 / 14 (or at least that was the age when I was growing up) and you're experimenting with sex and such. No means no. And un-consentual means you didn't "want" it.
My babies are small - and boys - but I struggle with the right words for them when they are experimenting. Sites like this can help.
I believe this happens way to often. Personally speaking it happened on multiple occasions when I was younger. On one occasion my roommates and I threw a party, many of the guests we didn't know, I passed out in my bedroom. I woke up to a man trying to have sex with me. I got up and moved to another room. I really didn't think much of it other than I was lucky I woke up.
Another time I gave a guy from the bar a ride to my house because he said he didn't have a ride and my house was closer for his friend to pick him up. I was very intoxicated and don't really remember much, but woke up to him having sex with me. My first reaction was to make sure he had a condom on, then kicked him off me and out of my house. Again I felt lucky that he had worn protection. Never until I got older did I consider either to be rape, or attempted rape.
It is and it is wrong. Men do not think that it is at all acceptable to take advantage of a girl that is drunk. Rape is rape.
[...] night, I read something that Carrie wrote on Violence UnSilenced, and a question that I’d considered emailing her about was answered for me. But before all that, [...]